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Comments on: Defending Adorno from his own devotees… https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/ oh no!! fite!! oh no!! Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:23:44 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: j. https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-506 Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:23:44 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-506 In reply to sukrat OTI.

sweeet

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By: sukrat OTI https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-502 Tue, 15 Jan 2013 23:31:20 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-502 In reply to j..

(rss enabled, seth tells me) (maybe)

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By: j. https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-494 Fri, 11 Jan 2013 03:30:44 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-494 In reply to Seth Edenbaum.

yo, seth, you should turn on your rss feed!

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By: xyzzzz__ https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-490 Tue, 08 Jan 2013 19:10:00 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-490 re: Cox, forgot to mention that he gives a critique of Taruskin’s ‘audience’ model of history. Very curious that it appeared as its v hard to ascertain (so I would think and what Cox says) what a wide audience thought of a piece in the way they would in the 18th or 20th century, given different levels of record or reaction and the make up of audience. Of course a historian looking at the 20th century in 200 years time would perhaps be able to apply this much more easily to pop and other styles of music by looking at sales figures and the like (assuming these survive our impending Mad Max style annihalation, of course).

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By: sukrat OTI https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-479 Fri, 04 Jan 2013 10:33:53 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-479 In reply to xyzzzz__.

I’m more bothered by the auto-conversion of the emoticon :p

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By: xyzzzz__ https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-478 Fri, 04 Jan 2013 10:28:37 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-478 Sorry for HTML mess…

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By: xyzzzz__ https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-477 Fri, 04 Jan 2013 10:23:35 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-477 I was also entertained about how excited you got Mark 🙂 It is a v funny title, to the blog post — he can’t help quoting TWA, even when pouring scorn.

I came across this after our talk in the pub (funny I wasn’t even looking for anything T-related), a critique of Taruskin’s five volume ‘Oxford History’. From my POV I learnt something new on every page, others could find it tiresome but long footnotes come on (the author is a “New Complexity” cellist-composer, the kind that Taruskin detests)!! That’s how I came across him, i.e. very negatively, until you talked about his work on medieval music (which Cox finds some praise for but it seems v fleeting to superficially maintain a ‘balanced’ perspective it probbaly does not have, he has other battles and is fighting them) and Strav in a positive light.

Meltzer not mentioned though.

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By: Seth Edenbaum https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-474 Fri, 04 Jan 2013 06:21:16 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-474 The book is from 2009. With what I’ve read of the introduction on google Taruskin seems still to be indulging selectively in moralism.

The TNR piece was hard to take; Panglossian in the face of what is still after all the cultural product of capitalism. Not every Jeremiad is written by a fascist. And in the end the critic is left as the intellectual celebrating and thus elevating the products of lesser minds. Not only only others have ideologies. I have the same problem with rock critics who celebrate pop songs by people they would never treat as intellectual equals; it’s the flaneur’s celebration of plebs as idiot savants. And again here a fixation on pop and nothing on Jazz. The whole thing vulgar especially compared to Charles Rosen.

And on a general note pop music criticism seems less music criticism as such than performance criticism. Taruskin himself is a stickler for the distinction between composition and performance but I think it’s central to “pop” music since the heyday of Italian opera, which is about singers more than songs.
For my money the best template for pop criticism in English at least is still T.S. Eliot on Marie LLoyd in 1922. Check TJ Clark in The Painting of Modern Life for the older history in french. But then and with Eliot as well, we’re back to the origin of the flaneur, with aristocratic and conservative irony right up front, not hidden behind a false defense of democracy. “Fuck the bourgeoisie!” and “Revolution now!” are not synonymous. The former without the later is either conservative, in the sense of monarchist, or anti-political, often to to the point of nihilism. That’s the 19th century origins of Punk.
And Taruskin with all his talk about German romanticism forgot that L’art pour l’art is French!

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By: sukrat OTI https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-473 Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:07:43 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-473 In reply to Seth Edenbaum.

I think when he mentions Shostakovich towards the end the TNR piece, he’s establishing that he no longer believes what he was saying in the Prokoviev review — if not quite claiming he never said it, but was only misread. (The fact the piece has disappeared suggests he wasn’t misread, of course — but that he now realises he badly miswrote.)

His discussion of the response to the Beatles isn’t actually terribly deep or interesting — I think I’ll pop an addendum in the post to say that, beyond being pleased that Meltzer was cited as someone important (which I genuinely think he is), I was a bit sad he was just flourished as a kind of symptom.

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By: Seth Edenbaum https://dubdobdee.co.uk/2013/01/03/defending-adorno-from-his-own-devotees/#comment-472 Thu, 03 Jan 2013 23:43:12 +0000 http://dubdobdee.co.uk/?p=515#comment-472 If you scroll up to the bottom of page 9 he goes into a bit of detail
“What is under critique in these pieces is not ‘the music itself’ but the whole network of social relations that comes into play in the maintenance of the activity we call ‘classical music’ ”
A little up the page he puts autonomy (of art) in scare quotes.

There’s no preview of the chapter which reproduces or expands on the piece in the Times, but I remember being as shocked as Simon was. It was literally an argument for no longer playing Prokofiev because the Soviets lost.

It’s interesting that the original is gone. I’m sure he requested it. I’ll have to go out and get the book.

Still reading the TNR piece but he’s wrong about change beginning with the Beatles. It began with theatrically intellectually sophisticated operettas and with the recognition of Jazz as an art music. Ellington, Strayhorn et al rescued Russian late romanticism from kitsch.
And before then it was Golliwogg’s Cakewalk

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